Interview with Sir Mark Tully

I had been wanting to chronicle this one since the day it happened but lots of things came about and blah bloo blee stopped me from doing so. It has so happened that I have inadvertently created an image of myself as that of a voriacious reader and a good speaker (I am neither and as far as speaking is concerned I am pretty mediocre. I recently discovered that I tend to make quite a few grammatical mistakes while speaking, something that has thankfully avoided the attention of people around me and hence the prevailing image). My interview with Gregory David Roberts, the author of Shantaram, probably helped created this image (The interview, on the other hand, was both given and conducted by Greg Roberts for all practical purposes, reducing me to a mere spectator). Nonetheless, I was happily commandeered as the interviewer of Sir Mark Tully during his talk at Mood Indigo '07.

As a short introduction, Sir Mark Tully was the BBC correspondent in India for a long time right from the late 70s to the late 90s (I think). He was/is a prolific journalist and at the same time has written a number of books/travelogues on India. Very professionally had he turned up for his talk in IIT but since every event was running late on schedule, the organisers had to postpone this event and we were there waiting eagerly for the auditorium to fill to a critical quorum. Finally things were ready, much to Archana's relief (she was the main organising person behind this event and also the authority which commandeered me into this service. A very lovable sophomore, who was in a very excitable mood that day). Sir Mark Tully entered the auditorium and slowly took his seat, politely acknowledging the warm welcome that received him into the room.

He then spoke for about half an hour. It was a very well articulated speech but then the subject was something that I had not anticipated earlier. His writings are usually a mix of his thoughts, opinions and experiences, each of which flow into one another and also develop together in his stories. I have read two of his books, the much acclaimed "No Full stops in India" and his latest "India's Unending journey". He is strongly opinionated about things but rarely gets polemical while writing, which is perhaps one reason why reading Tully is not always that interesting and eventful. Nonetheless, he is one of those westerners, like Edward Said, who vociferously denounce the west's perception of the east. At the same time Tully is also strongly critical of the colonial hangover that is present in most Indians, who from the time of independence, have felt it prudent to marry everything that the west has to offer and finding no good in our native culture and heritage.

But coming back to his talk that day, he chose the continuing battle between theology and science as his subject. I don't know if labeling it a 'battle' is premature on my part but Sir Mark spoke on the very same subject. His main thesis was could be summarized in the following words - "In the current age of scientific progress and market capitalism, there is a prevailing notion that religion as an antiquated practice should necessarily be rejected for the good of the society. But it is important for the people of this world, especially the beneficiaries of modern day technology, to realise that not all answers to life can come out of science and that theology should not be done away with completely." As regards to religious beliefs, I know that Tully is a devout theist. I wanted to find out if he was a fundamental Christian in the Dawkinsean sense (like if he believes that the earth is actually 9000 years old because it is said so in the bible and whether he believes in hell fire and other such stuff) and I realised that he wasn't one but that he strongly believed in the existence of a supernatural power that transcended human aptitude.

During his talk, he very strongly criticised Dawkins's book, "The God Delusion" on the scientific dogmatism it tries to propagate, attempting to completely dismiss religion as a human emotion and possible social institution. One of the objections that I raised to his criticism of Dawkins was prompted by something that I had read in his introduction in "No full stops...". While writing on the colonial and the Indian elitist view of the caste system Tully remarked that "..the easiest way to denounce or debunk any system is to highlight only its excesses" and I told him that this is precisely what I thought he had done with Dawkins's book during his lecture. No doubt Dawkins gets polemical too frequently (scientists have to learn to resist the easy tempation of arrogance that comes along with the feeling when one knows that one is correct about something) but I said that he was mainly denouncing institutionalized religion and not an individual right to a personal god or theology for that matter. To this, Sir Mark replied that he considered it premature of Dawkins to completely rule out institutionalized religion and at the same time Dawkins seemed unaware of advances by recent theologicians (read Dawkins' statement on leprechauns and leprechaunology!). Also more importantly, he stated that Dawkins had chosen the most detestable of all possible Gods to make his thesis and that he lacked moderation for all his stature. (I shall end this debate here and post my own views on God and religion sometime later; perhaps when I am as famous as either one of these two :P. Only then will people take me seriously).

The most important thing that struck me about Sir Mark Tully (Honestly, I didn't buy most of what he said about religion; perhaps it was too short a time) was that he was a humble man and a genuinely affable person. He didn't have any airs of being knighted by the queen and happily joined Archana and me for a humble lunch at Gulmohar restaurant. He generously chatted with us throughout the lunch, while enjoying dollops of palak paneer and dal khichidi, asking us about our families, future plans etc. He seemed slightly dissappointed when I told him of my plans of doing a PhD in the United States and asked me if I had applied to his alma mater Cambridge. My reply in support of US as my choice did not seem to satisfy him particularly, so we left it at that. It ended up being an extremely memorable afternoon with me feeling a deep admiration for this gem of a person.